ionubd
Junior Member
Posts: 94
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Post by ionubd on Jan 9, 2024 18:52:24 GMT 2
Hi, apologies if I offended anyone. The Facebook group is not mine, I just initiated it and tried to get as much people as possible to join, contribute, and find out about Henri Depierre/ Gemini. I also welcome anyone to get involved and become an admin. The group is private but open to anyone, unfortunately once started as private it cannot be changed. I always quoted the sources when posted info to FB. I also don’t take any credit and it was my pleasure to search, find and share info. Every time I found interesting info (at least from my perspective) I also came and posted to this forum. I believe in the end the result is important, namely preserving the legacy/ history and Classic RDV seemed a good resource to get Gemini info included. Apologies again, my intentions were positive and I have nothing to hide or gain from this stuff, I did it as I enjoyed it and due to the fact that it intrigued me that these great builders were so hard to get info about (first group I started was Bernard Carré: the fact that I could only find 2 pictures of him, one of each from his obituary, but at the same time I read that he built frames for several TDF winners made me very intrigued 🙂)
I will contact Guy Apple from Classic RDV and kindly ask him to mention Velo Retro Course as a source, if you have a specific link just let me know. Thanks again.
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Post by Munny on Jan 9, 2024 20:06:19 GMT 2
Ionub,
You contacted me to join your group and post my Depierre Perfection. At the time, for a short period, I was secretly watching this so called social media. The day Mr Zukerberg had to follows EU laws and asked anyone to accept to use any data, any detail or viewed link for advertissment, or to pay (and be used anyway), I stopped. This has never be free accesses in any sense. Not shared access but paid access.
And I accept hence to limit my knowledge, to avoid some good deals (if there are any)
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ionubd
Junior Member
Posts: 94
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Post by ionubd on Jan 12, 2024 18:19:53 GMT 2
C’est très bien et j’approuve évidemment l’effort qui consiste à regrouper de la matière pour enrichir le site ClassicRDV, mais il n’y a nulle part de liens ou de remerciements vers les divers sites ou forums, dont Velo Retro Course, où tu as pu il me semble collecter certaines informations… Alors certes, tu cites 80velo (dans le texte) et à la fin surtout ton groupe facebook, qui peut-être renseigne sur les sources et les liens dont il est question (?), mais comme déjà dit : ce groupe est privé et non accessible à tous ! Apologies again, the reference to this thread was added to the Classic rendezvous Gemini article:
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ionubd
Junior Member
Posts: 94
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Post by ionubd on Jan 15, 2024 22:38:02 GMT 2
Hello! Still trying to figure out the significance of the number from codes stamped on Gemini frames (the letter being almost certain the initial of the owner’s last name).
Question: have you ever seen a number > 19?
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ionubd
Junior Member
Posts: 94
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Post by ionubd on Jan 16, 2024 10:03:39 GMT 2
I have found for a frame of JJ SIMMLER, born 21/06/1941 that it had stamped: S6, so the number matches the month - possibly a coincidence as this rule does not cover numbers >12
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ionubd
Junior Member
Posts: 94
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Post by ionubd on Jan 16, 2024 13:50:10 GMT 2
One more example I found, V13 for last name starting with V and date of birth 13 January (this time the number matches the day)
We need some more examples for assessing if there is a pattern
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Post by velo321 on Jan 16, 2024 22:23:17 GMT 2
I've seen number 32 (or maybe it was 23) but definitely >20. This theory with date of birth makes little sense. Also some customers had multiple frames ordered but no duplicates have appeared so far.
Ce qui serait plus intéressant de savoir, c'est combien de cadres Henri & fils réalisaient chaque année. Entre 50 et 100 ?
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ionubd
Junior Member
Posts: 94
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Post by ionubd on Jan 16, 2024 22:31:58 GMT 2
Could be a coincidence and the theory could be wrong but it’s worth trying to find at least another frame with known owner’s name and date of birth in order to have more clarity. So far, for the only 2 frames I found with name/ birth info, the month or day matched the number.
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ionubd
Junior Member
Posts: 94
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Post by ionubd on Jan 22, 2024 9:34:55 GMT 2
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Post by Munny on Jan 22, 2024 20:04:57 GMT 2
I've already seen this question on the Depierre Gemini numbering on other forums
J'ai déjà vu ces questions sur la numérotation des Gemini.
I don't get why. Je ne comprends pas que ce soit une question.
Let's imagine you were Mr Depierre - Imaginez vous à la place de Mr Depierre. The first letter is from the customer familly name. La première lettre est celle du nom de famille du client.
You have for 2 letters - Vous avez pour 2 lettres
L1 and __ __ and __ L3 and __ __ __ L6 and __ L7 and __ __ and __ __ and V9 __ __ __ __ and V13 __ and __ __ __ __ and V17 __ and __ ...
Well! It is simple. - C'est très simple. He had to avoid duplicates - Il devait éviter les doublons. So, he used a chronological number - Donc il utilisa un numéro séquentiel
It appears that you have inventoried the first Gemini from a mister Lsomething This doesn't mean that it is the first frame. Simply the first time he framed for a mister L and so far, no more than 7 L are known This means that at least L2, L4 and L5 existed
Why so many V? I don't know about french family names but if some of his customers were belgian, I guess that a quite high percentage of the population familly name starts with a V. Like VanSomething, VerSomething etc ...
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ionubd
Junior Member
Posts: 94
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Post by ionubd on Jan 22, 2024 20:17:22 GMT 2
I am just trying to find the logic. I don’t think numbering is sequential in time per letter: L1 and L3 are both built after L7. Also, numbering per letter could have not “reset” each year as it is impossible to have for example so many Vs in one year.
I believe it could be related to the month or or the day of birth of the owner - possibly not a fixed rule. 75% of the numbers are <=12.
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Post by Munny on Jan 22, 2024 20:54:15 GMT 2
There is (was) a legal requirement in France for the producers to identify each frame. The only way to do this is using sequential numbering without reset per year
However (if L7 really precede L1 and L3) destroyed numbers could be reused.
It just means that the production is much lower that expected. True artisan.
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ionubd
Junior Member
Posts: 94
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Post by ionubd on Jan 24, 2024 20:13:05 GMT 2
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Post by alainm on Jan 24, 2024 22:12:07 GMT 2
l'ancien propriétaire de ce C11 rouge -ou du moins de cette fourche: le cadre semble ne pas porter cette marque- est un de nos membres: seramik veloretrocourse.proboards.com/thread/143/les-los-de-seramik?page=2Je crois qu'il n'existe pas d'image du marquage éventuel du cadre. & ses finitions ne sont pas en adéquation avec celle de cette fourche ni avec ce que l'on connait de celles de la marque en général. Le cadre pourrait ne pas être issu de l'atelier Depierre comme filoo en avait déjà fait la supposition (mais je ne retrouve plus cette remarque. Peut-être s'en souvient-il?). Les finitions en pointe sur les pattes, l'absence d'enjoliveurs au pontet... ne donnent pas envie de croire les stickers.
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